Pokerstars und Sharkscope - zur Info!

[aXXit]

Hi Leute,

nur für alle zur Info ... folgende Mail erreichte mich soeben:

> Hello,
>
> It has come to our attention at PokerStars that you are accessing a
> prohibited third party website known as "SharkScope.com" during your game play.
>
> Perhaps you were unaware that the use of SharkScope was against the rules,
> but use of this software under any circumstances is against our terms of
> service. Those terms of service are located here:
>
> Poker Stars - Online Poker Site Terms of Service
>
> Among them are these terms:
>
> 5.4. EXTERNAL PLAYER ASSISTANCE PROGRAMS (EPA). PokerStars
> prohibits those External Player Assistance Programs ("EPA
> Programs") which are designed to provide an "Unfair Advantage"
> to players. PokerStars defines "External" to mean computer
> software...and non-software-based databases or profiles (e.g.
> web sites and subscription services). PokerStars defines
> an "Unfair Advantage" as any instance in which a User
> accesses or compiles information on other players beyond
> that which the User has personally observed through the
> User's own game play. We encourage you to read our
> Prohibited Online Software FAQ at:
>
> Prohibited Online Poker Software Programs
>
> As SharkScope provides statistics based upon a large database of hands in
> which you did not play, it is considered to be in violation of this policy.
>
> We are aware that many who receive this alert do not subscribe to
> SharkScope, but do use the 5 free daily lookups to check their own stats. We do
> not distinguish between such uses, however, and even this use of SharkScope
> is prohibited.
>
> For a brief transition period, we will only be issuing this alert. We ask
> that you stop using SharkScope immediately. On November 15, we will begin
> closing the accounts of players found to be using SharkScope despite
> having received and acknowledged a warning.
>
> Thank you for your cooperation in this matter, and for helping us to keep
> PokerStars' games a fair and level playing field for all players.
>
> Best Regards,
>
> PokerStars Game Security


My line? Schätze mal ich werde meine ganze BR auf Full Tilt shippen, aber das ist mir way zu riskant ...

Gruß
aXXit

[vhone1970]

Hey, die Meldung hab ich auch grad bekommen, damit hab ich den letzten Grund gefunden PS Goodbye zu sagen.

Unfassbar was die sich erlauben....

[aXXit]

Hier auch noch gleich die Standardantwort bzw FAQs zu dem Thema:

The following mini-FAQ answers many of the common questions players are
asking about our policy as regards SharkScope and sites like it.

Q: How can SharkScope be prohibited software when it isn't software?
It's only a website.

A: The policy under which SharkScope is prohibited covers this. We
define prohibited software as programs or databases, and specifically
include websites that contain prohibited data as being themselves
prohibited.

-------------

Q: Why is this considered an unfair advantage? I'm just looking up stats
on whether a player is a winning player or not....

A: Part of the game of poker is in learning about your opponents' skills
and tendencies through game play against them. We believe you should
not be able to come to a game pre-armed with information about your
opponents if you have never played against them. Thus, we explicitly
permit tools that are based upon your own hands played (hand history
analyzers, HUDs and such), but prohibit tools that are based upon
"datamining", or the gathering of hands in which you did not play.

-------------

Q: Why are some sites similar to SharkScope permitted, while SharkScope
is banned?

A: We have drawn a clear dividing line between what a site can show and
what they cannot. Without a player's permission, a site may only show
gross winnings. Net winnings, or ROI, or profitability, may only be
shown if a player opts in and gives explicit permission for his data
to be available to others. In other words, a site can show that you
have cashed in 35 events for prize awards totalling $26,115, but it
cannot show that you entered 511 events and are a net loser over time,
unless you grant permission.

Those sites that have agreed to this policy are not prohibited. Those
sites that have refused to comply with this policy, are prohibited.
Among those sites that have agreed to our policy, that are or very
shortly will be working on an opt-in basis for ROI, and thus will
eventually join the list of permitted programs, are:

officialpokerrankings.com
thepokerdb.com
cardplayer.com

------------

Q: I'm only using it to check my own stats, or looking up players on
another site. That's OK, right?

A: No, it is not. We don't track who you are checking up on. We only
note the access of the website, and don't make a distinction between
who is being looked up, or what site a lookup is for. Any access
to SharkScope while the PokerStars client is running (even to look
up a player on another site) will result in an automated warning.
As such, you may not use SharkScope on other sites while playing on
PokerStars. Any access to SharkScope to look up data on a PokerStars
player (even yourself, even if the PokerStars client is not running)
is prohibited.

Those that want to track their own stats are advised to acquire a
hand history analysis tool, such as PokerTracker, Holdem Manager,
Poker Office, or any number of other explicitlt permitted programs
into which your own hand histories may be imported real-time as
you play. We are happy to provide any player that asks with a copy
of every hand they have ever played on PokerStars.

------------

Q: Can I use SharkScope to look up players before and after my games,
or when the PokerStars software is not running?

A: "Teacher, can I cheat on my exam when you're not looking?"

Just because we aren't watching at the time does not mean that the
rules are suspended. The purpose of the rule is to prevent players
from having information that they should not have, and the rule still
applies before and after the games, difficulty in detection and
enforcement notwithstanding.

------------

Q: Doesn't that mean that someone without scruples and willing to break
the rules by hiding their use of these tools will gain an advantage?

A: Perhaps in the short term. PokerStars remains dedicated to enforcing
a fairness policy equally and to all players. A player that tries
to "stealth" his use of prohibited tools runs the risk of losing his
account and possibly the funds on deposit if they are found to be
in wilfull and knowing violation of our terms. We will continue to
improve both our detection methods and our means of preventing data
gathering in order to keep the playing field as level as can be.

------------

Q: Then why don't you just block SharkScope from gathering the data in
the first place? Why warn the players, when it is SharkScope that
is in greater violation to begin with for gathering the data?

A: This is in the works as well. The player warnings will go hand in
hand with new software features designed to prevent mass datamining
by these sites.

-------------

Q: How did you detect that I was visiting this site? I don't like you
snooping on my computer. What else are you looking at?

A: PokerStars values player privacy (which is one reason we have
implemented this policy). Our terms of service to which you agreed
give us permission to examine certain aspects of your computer for
prohibited programs or accesses. We balance this with privacy by
collecting and storing ONLY that data which relates to prohibited
programs. We do not take screen captures of your screen. We do
not look in your browser cache. We do not take note of your visits
to websites other than those of prohibited programs. We do not
gather any data that is not directly related to prohibit program
mitigation.

--------------

Ich schätze mal das Ganze wird hohe Wellen schlagen ... wenn sich Stars da mal nicht selbst ans Bein pinkelt - ich denke da nur an die High Limit SnGler ... glaub kaum, dass von denen jemand Sharkscope NICHT verwendet ...

[aXXit]

Kurz ergänzend. Hab mal nachgefragt, was es mit der Warnung bzgl. dem Sperren des Accounts auf sich hat. Darauf diese Antwort:

Hello Christoph (du cooler typ),

Nobody is going to lose their account over this single advance notice.
There will be a series of escalating warnings before anyone is in danger
of losing their account. All you need to do is to avoid the use of
SharkScope going forward and your account will remain in good standing.

Best Regards,

Jeff
PokerStars Game Security

---------

[Stalli]

Q: Can I use SharkScope to look up players before and after my games,
or when the PokerStars software is not running?

A: "Teacher, can I cheat on my exam when you're not looking?"
Just because we aren't watching at the time does not mean that the
rules are suspended. The purpose of the rule is to prevent players
from having information that they should not have, and the rule still
applies before and after the games, difficulty in detection and
enforcement notwithstanding.

Q: How did you detect that I was visiting this site? I don't like you
snooping on my computer. What else are you looking at?

A: PokerStars values player privacy (which is one reason we have
implemented this policy). Our terms of service to which you agreed
give us permission to examine certain aspects of your computer for
prohibited programs or accesses. We balance this with privacy by
collecting and storing ONLY that data which relates to prohibited
programs. We do not take screen captures of your screen. We do
not look in your browser cache. We do not take note of your visits
to websites other than those of prohibited programs. We do not
gather any data that is not directly related to prohibit program
mitigation

Dies sind wohl die interessantesten Sachen, die man da rauslesen kann.

Wird sicherlich nicht einfach, zu sehen, ob man auf Sharkscope war, und sei es, nur von einem anderen PC aus, was schon ausreicht, um nicht erwischt zu werden. (Reicht schon, einen anderen Laptop oder PC auf der Arbeit zu nutzen und sich eben die Stats der Spieler auszudrucken, anstatt direkt auf dem Bildschirm zu haben.

Außerdem würde ich mich auch schlecht fühlen, wenn PS wirklich dermaßen viel meines Online-Seins "überwacht".
Denke, das sich damit viel mehr Spieler in der "verbotenen Zone" befinden, als PS lieb sein kann.
Und auch dies kann ein Argument sein, die Plattform zu wechseln.

Wird man sehen, inwieweit diese Aktionen "Anklang" finden.

[Duddel]

find es auch ziemlich scheiße, dass Stars einen so sehr "überwacht", auf Full Tilt Poker ist ja sogar das Sharkscope HUD erlaubt, Stars sollte sich mal ne Scheibe abschneiden.

denke mal dass einige SNG-Spieler nun den Raum wechseln werden, ich eventuell auch, aber ich warts erstmal ab...

[hasch-poker]

War grade auf Scope, auch die äußern sich jetzt dazu!

Important Information Regarding PokerStars


PokerStars has recently changed its rules stating that to avoid being placed on the prohibited list all tracking services must have an opt-in policy. That means that no stats would be available on players unless they had specifically enabled them. Obviously most players do not know about SharkScope therefore you would not be able to look up other players, rendering our service mostly useless. People who are are only interested in looking at their own statistics are going to be able to do so no matter what PokerStars says as they can simply do it when the PokerStars client is not open.

In response to these rules, we proposed various compromises that would have enabled us to continue a valuable service to our users whilst addressing PokerStars' concerns. PokerStars refused to consider these in any way, and refused to explain why other similar services were not being subjected to the same rules as us. Therefore there is no way we can comply with their rules and it is completely out of our hands.

With these new rules it appears that PokerStars is now monitoring and recording which websites you visit when have the PokerStars client open (its important to note they are only doing this whilst you have their client open) and threatening accounts with closure. We believe it is inappropriate for a pokersite to do this, regardless of whether permission to do this is hidden in the small print you agreed to when you signed up at the site. Therefore our number one suggestion is for you to play at a different, more reasonable site.

However, we understand that some users will wish to continue playing on PokerStars therefore you have the following options to avoid detection:

1.Use the SharkScope HUD - This product now supports PokerStars and has been designed with your privacy in mind. If you launch PokerStars from the HUD (and only if you launch it from the HUD) and keep the HUD open, Pokerstars will not be able to detect you using the HUD or visiting the SharkScope.com website.
2.Use SharkScope.com on a computer other than the one you have the PokerStars client running on.
3.Only use SharkScope.com when the PokerStars client is not open.
4.We are in the process of implementing another option for non premium subscribers which should be available shortly.

[aXXit]

Weiß nicht, ob ich die offensive Herangehensweise von Sharkscope gutheißen soll oder nicht. Ist ja schön, dass sie uns Tipps gehen, wie wir die Regel umgehen können, nur wird es so mit Sicherheit nichts damit, dass sich Stars und SS einigen könnten ...

Schaut nach Krieg aus und wenn es nach Stars geht, wird deren Software jetzt sowieso so verändert, dass Sharkscope gar nicht erst tracken kann. (was ich mir aber nicht vorstellen kann ... SS hat ja sicher auch findige Programmierer).

SS leitet ja jetzt sogar, wenn man auf ihrer HP auf den Stars-Link klickt auf Full Tilt weiter

[Souljin]

axxit add me icq or msn 330355094 Quickdraw@hotmail.de

[Sir Vivor]

Aktuell gibt es wohl gar keine Probleme mit SharkScope auf PS. Ich verwende es ständig, habe aber noch nie eine E-Mail deswegen von PS bekommen.